Amid Russia’s continued effort to secure the Donetsk region, Denis Vladimirovich Pushilin, a separatist leader and the head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), speaks exclusively to India Today’s Gita Mohan.
Describing Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as a puppet of the West, Denis said that “Russian forces will continue to advance until we capture the entire Donetsk region.”
India Today: Let’s start with the latest news of a rocket that hit a railway station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk.
Denis Pushilin: We constantly receive such provocations from the Ukrainian military. Such fake news and news spread, you must have also heard about the attack on a maternity hospital and a drama theater in Mariupol. When we liberated Mariupol, there was no confirmation of such crimes. Then came the news of the city of Bucha and fresh allegations from there. The first mass media in such places of provocation came from Great Britain. There was Sky News. They were also present in Kramatorsk today.
As we know, Kramatorsk was hit by a tactical missile system, Tochka-U. I want to specify that this weapon is used only by Ukraine because for the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic), LPR (Luhansk People’s Republic) and Russia, it is already out of date. We do not use such weapons.
Ukraine also targeted our areas with these missiles. At least 24 such rockets have been shot down by us since February 17th. On March 14, one fell in the center of Donetsk, as a result of which 21 people were killed and 38 were injured. It was shot down by our anti-missile system but one of the cluster bombs detonated.
This (Kramatorsk incident) is happening because Ukraine wanted new pictures because Buka is already old. They want something hot, something new to keep these tensions going.
He used these civilians as human shields.
India Today: Are you accusing Ukraine of bombing their people?
Denis Pushilin: We have been blaming Ukraine for eight years because they used weapons and personnel to fight with us. Since the start of the increase, a total of 518 items of infrastructure including hospitals, schools, etc. have been damaged and I am not counting the housing facilities here. They have destroyed a lot of them.
India Today: Russia’s membership of the UNHRC was suspended and Moscow responded by permanently terminating membership. Sanctions continue against Russia, which also affects the people of Donetsk. Ultimately it is the people who have to suffer.
Answer: The citizens here have already faced sanctions for eight years. Economic blockades, transport blockades, sanctions, as well as sanctions have been imposed. Now, these additional sanctions against Russia have no effect on us.
Regarding the international community, I would like to say that they do not want to accuse Russia, they want to destroy Russia economically, make Russia lose its sovereignty. But, I must also say that some countries think otherwise, like China, India, BRICS countries. They are quite capable of understanding what is happening here. In any case, sanctions would have been imposed against Russia, if not for the Donbass, then for the Crimea or Kaliningrad, or they would have simply dreamed of something.
Now we can see that the real world order is changing. America and Britain do not like the fact that the world is changing and they are now losing their dominance and leadership around the world. Some European countries are also being used to their advantage. They don’t care about people. You have seen the rise in oil prices which has affected the residents.
Sanctions do not lead to anything good and resolve matters. What is Russia doing? Russia is defending its sovereignty and respects the interests of the people of the Russian Federation. Russia is acting in the interest of its citizens and I think it is the right thing to do.
India Today: Your assessment of the ground situation? When and how do you think peace will return after Ukraine, Russia and the Donbass region have taken a tough stand?
Denis Pushilin: The objective of the ‘special military operation’ (invasion of Ukraine) was defined. It aims to protect the DPR and LPR regions (the two that make up the Donbass region), protect civilians, demilitarize, demilitarize, neutralize Ukraine as well as defend Ukraine’s non-nuclear state status. These are simple conditions to ensure peace. But, believe me, I have been negotiating with Ukraine for seven years, including the Minsk Agreement. Ukraine is no place for dialogue because it is a puppet. They don’t make decisions. That is why these conditions cannot and have not been met. Ukraine has outside control. This special military operation launched by Russia, which is a liberation campaign for us, will continue until every goal is achieved.
India Today: What are the objectives and is there a redline?
Denis Pushilin: All the terms have been made public. If you are talking about the status of Crimea and the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, this is also a prerequisite because a referendum was held in Crimea and the people there themselves decided to go to Russia after the 2014 coup did. in Ukraine. It was the decision of the people. Crimea was part of Russia until 1953.
As far as Donbass is concerned, we were doing everything to engage in diplomatic dialogue and bring about concrete results. For seven years, Ukraine, by all means, was delaying the process of negotiations. In eight years, more than 5,000 people have died in our area, including 100 children. There was a monstrous scale of infrastructure destruction during this period. In 2021 and early 2022, Ukraine, with all its military might and the might provided by the West, decided to send its army and troops to the Donbass and use force against us. As soon as our intelligence services gave us this information, we urged the President of the Russian Federation to help us defend our territory and our citizens. The Russian Federation recognized us, which was the only real decision in these circumstances. If Russia had not intervened, our region would have suffered hundreds and thousands of casualties. Ukraine would have demolished the Donbass. Huge quantities of military weapons and equipment were being collected. We thank God that most of this weapon has already been destroyed by us. As you know, talks are going on between Russia and Ukraine.
Ukraine is using the same tactics as it did with the Minsk Agreements – delays, PR campaigns, fake news and so on.
They change documents, their offers, and their status. In my personal opinion it will not yield any positive result.
India Today: You once said that the President of Ukraine and the West have accused the leaders of the DPR and LPR of being puppets of Russia and President Putin. Is NATO’s expansion the reason these buffer states are being created or is it about the people? You are still recognized not by the world, but only by Russia.
Denis Pushilin: If we are talking about puppets, then I would like to say that the Donetsk People’s Republic has a more independent thinking and a role in the decision-making process for the sake of its citizens. In Kyiv there is no such freedom and opportunities. Zelensky, who won 70% of the vote in the elections, said his slogan was of peace, to stop the war. And people came and voted for him.
His position changed dramatically as soon as he became president and had the opportunity to speak with pro-Western leaders. He was not against the war in the Donbass, he was against the Russian language and the Russian-speaking people. This was irrespective of the interests and will of those who voted for him. I would also like to point out that he is worse than Poroshenko (former Ukrainian President) because he committed more war crimes, killed civilians and destroyed infrastructure here.
Talking about our destiny, our destiny; Our position is unchanged and non-negotiable. We would like to be close to Russia because Russia is the object of our existence, it is our motherland. We were born in the USSR and we know that all our achievements were achieved when we were united – the victory in the world war, the first cosmonauts, the great economic advancement, the plants, the infrastructure was built then.
Regarding NATO, the Russian Federation has openly stated that NATO aggression (expansion) continues and that Russia must respond. The expansion of NATO is a great threat to Russia and its citizens and Russia cannot ignore this expansion.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO made a lot of promises and broke all promises. Talks are going on for Ukraine to enter NATO. If this happens, missiles and rockets from Ukraine could be launched into Russian territory within 7-10 minutes. Therefore, Russia insists on the neutrality of Ukraine and that it should not join any military faction or organization.
I believe that Russia cannot neglect the interests of its country, its people and its borders.
India Today: Given the current situation, are the Minsk Accords dead?
Denis Pushilin: Yes, totally. With Russia recognizing Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states, the Minsk Agreements lost their understanding. But, I would like to add that the Minsk Agreements were suppressed long ago. Over the past seven years, not a single clause of the Minsk-II Agreement or the Package of Agreements has been implemented. We did everything to get Ukraine to obey, but they didn’t.
India Today: Ukraine says It is because Russian forces were present in the Donbass that they could not implement the Minsk package.
Denis Pushilin: Ukraine also said that during those eight years it had been hostile to Russia, but when the special military operation began, things changed seriously.
India Today: Many people have lost their homes and lives. Could there have been an alternative to war?
Denis Pushilin: My personal opinion is that the fate and fate of Ukraine was decided in 2014 when the Western countries forced Ukraine into a coup and they wanted to make Ukraine a stage of aggression and assault against the Russian Federation. So, I guess that’s it. Whether we like it or not, we have to take up arms to defend ourselves, our land and our families. The Ukrainian army and army in Donetsk used all their weapons to attack the civilian population. It is a war crime because it violates international humanitarian laws and the Constitution of Ukraine, but they did. I guess, in early 2014, there was no choice.
India Today: Russia has decided to sell gas only in ruble. Is this de-dollarisation of the global economy an economic masterstroke or could it lead to further isolation?
Denis Pushilin: I think it is the right decision. But, I cannot speak on behalf of the Russian Federation as I am not authorized to do so, but after the Bretton Woods Agreement and when the world decided to go from a gold-to-gold currency relationship, a lot of countries reached a high level. risk. Nowadays, we can see that the dollar is a high risk currency.
My opinion is to forget about the dollar and convert to national currency using mutual agreements and as per mutual needs.
India Today: There are people in both Russia and the Donbass who are urging leaders to resolve them through dialogue, not the military. What is your message to them?
Denis Pushilin: We have a saying about a peaceful sky. We would like to emphasize the peaceful situation. We never understood when our elders used the phrase peaceful sky. For us it was just a phrase. During the past eight years, we have recognized what it means, we have recognized that it means that we should care and be grateful that everyone is alive, that your family, friends and relatives are alive; that your home is safe. The infrastructure doesn’t get destroyed. It is of unparalleled value. I hope that the situation in the Donbass will return to normal.
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